Should gaming be a “safe space” for nerdy dudes who hate women? The Men’s Rights perspective

idiot-nerd-girl-reappropriated-05

I’m back from a brief vacation in Migraineland, and thinking about the ways in which Men’s Rights Activists love to appropriate the language of feminism and other progressive movements, usually in ways that are face-palmingly ass-backwards.

Take this recent discussion on the Men’s Rights subreddit of the dire threat of “fake gamer girls” invading the “male space” of gaming. The generically named guywithaccount sets up the discussion with this post:

I want to talk about "fake geek girls" (self.MensRights)  submitted 9 days ago by guywithaccount  For those of you who don't know about this, there's a bit of a controversy in what I'll call the geek community. Apparently, when women attend geek conventions (that is, those celebrating e.g. video games, comic books, sci-fi and fantasy), some men accuse them of being "fake geeks" or demanding that they prove their "geek cred" by correctly answering trivia questions made up on the spot.  Here's one article (of many) that talks about it: [1] http://bookviewcafe.com/blog/2013/08/08/the-fake-geek-girl-nonsense/  My concern for this issue is that, like anything else that involves gender, feminists and feminist sympathizers are attempting to dominate the discussion and frame the whole thing from a feminist and gynocentric perspective. The prevailing analysis might be summed up as "geek culture is deeply misogynistic, and the people complaining about fake geeks are just sad little losers who hate women."  IMO, the geek subculture has provided a somewhat-safe space for many men who have been snubbed by the rest of society, where they are not expected to prove their value to each other by carving notches in a bedpost or exemplifying traditional masculine traits. The increase in mainstream appeal and female participation over the past decade or so threatens the safety and exclusivity of this space, and the backlash from male geeks is a somewhat-predictable response to the invasion of their space.  Of course, there are few spaces just for men, and when someone tries to create or preserve one, they're accused of misogyny.  I suspect that some of you don't give a crap about any of this and see the whole thing as petty, but realize that it's not happening in a vacuum. I believe it's merely a symptom of the fact that men have almost no voice in gender discussions and their needs are routinely denied or ignored.
Now, there is a teensy bit of gold in this pile of bullshit: the notion of a “safe space,” where oppressed people can come forward and discuss their issues without fear of being talked over or shut down by those outside their group — who have more power in the world and who may not have their best interests at heart (or who may just be Blabby McBlabbypants types).

But there are a couple of giant problems with this notion when it comes to gamer dudes declaring gaming a “safe space” for men. The first is that, despite lingering resentments over being “snubbed” in high school or wherever — evident in the OP and in comments throughout the discussion — these guys are not actually an oppressed people by any measure that really matters.

Indeed, many of them — as tech dudes in a male-dominated tech world — are in fact in fairly privileged positions. For them to claim they need a “safe space” to protect themselves from the evils of “fake gamer girls” is a bit like Klan members claiming they need a “safe space” to protect themselves from blacks, Jews and Catholics. (Which is more or less what Klan members have argued over the years, albeit in less PC language.) No, I’m not claiming that all MRAs are the equivalent of hood-wearing Klan members. Only some of them are.

The second problem with the “game world as safe space for men” aregument is that YOU CAN’T JUST DECLARE BIG CHUNKS OF THE WORLD TO BELONG TO MEN. Yes, men dominate the gaming world in sheer numbers, both as game-makers and game-players. (While women make up nearly half of all game players — 47% — men tend to dominate the “serious” games that many geek dudes claim are the only ones that really count.) But gaming doesn’t “belong” to men any more than, say, novel-reading “belongs” to women — even though surveys suggest that women make up a staggering 80% of the fiction market in much of the English-speaking world.

Yep, that’s right: Women dominate “noveling” much more dramatically than men dominate gaming. Yet you don’t find women denouncing “fake noveler boys” or declaring that the male brain isn’t wired to understand the subtleties of written fiction.

No, in fact men are actively welcomed into book clubs. And my best friend, a woman, has spent much of the 18 or so years or our friendship trying to get me to read this novel or that novel, though over the years she’s only succeeded in getting me to read maybe one or two of her suggestions, which were pretty good, I have to admit. (I do plan to read some of the others, really.)

If you’re a socially awkward guy and want a safe space to discuss that, find a therapist, find a support group. Don’t pick on women gamers and pretend this is somehow your right because you’re oppressed as a socially awkward guy.

Anyway, here are some other dumb comments from the Reddit thread. YetAnotherCommenter warns feminists that they may lose some powerful allies if they continue acting so feministy.

YetAnotherCommenter 18 points 9 days ago* (22|4)      Woman are assigned status for being nerds where men are not.  Men lose status for their nerdiness. Women gain it.  Some geek girls have admitted how being a female nerd grants you so much attention from men (Rebecca Watson did precisely this in an issue of a skeptic newsletter). They admit the fact that female-geekery conveys a certain level of privilege.  This is actually compounded by feminism because by being a geek (or faking it) a woman is seen as standing up to the "boys club" and thus gets a chorus of "You Go Girl!" cheerleading combined with the ability to acquire victim cred from "teh sexist menz are picking on me!"      Also, the way some pop-feminists go on about fake nerd girl shaming, it's like it's a second holocaust or something.  And then they shame all male nerds as misogynists who are bitter because they can't get laid. "Neckbeard" and "fedora" jokes and "you're just socially awkward and live in your mother's basement" are all derivatives of nerd shaming.  I know several geek girls (real geek girls, not fake ones). I support females who enjoy video games and comics etc. enjoying these hobbies. I also think it makes business sense for some comics and games to cater to this demographic (to varying degrees).  What I protest is how ideological feminists are basically attempting to "reformat" geek culture towards their own preferences, and I protest how they see geek culture (which is a product of the socially emasculated rejects of the gender system) as a bastion of "male privilege." I protest how they interpret the fact that things aren't always about them all the time as bigotry or hatred. You can fairly describe geek culture as androcentric (after all, it is predominantly male and formed from the basis of men's experiences), but this isn't the same as misogyny.  The fact is that if feminists truly wanted to undo the gender system, male nerds would be a fantastic reservoir of allies. Yet by casting us as oppressors and borderline-rapists and engaging in repeated attention-whoring behavior and exploiting female-nerd privilege and inflicting repeated guilt-trips upon us, they have destroyed any hope of this.
Speaking of nerds who can’t get laid — which we weren’t but which these guys keep bringing up (and identifying themselves as) again and again — guia7ri seems to harbor some lingering resentments from high school, and who better to take that out on than attractive geeky women?

guia7ri 4 points 9 days ago (7|3)  I think that the reason why it seems like mostly women (or why it's fake geek girls not just fake geeks) is because girls have all of the power in high school. The popular/attractive girls control who is "cool" and who isn't. But it never just ends there. The ones that get rejected by this group will be rejected by everyone else because they're trying to be accepted as "cool". The rejects end up being forced loners at best (unless they hang out with other misfits, but that can almost make things worse). So when the girls who were (or look like they would have been) responsible for the geeks being social outcasts and losers for being geeks, are now are getting into geek culture it ends up causing a controversy over the legitimacy of a girl's interests.  Even so I think the reason why it may actually be fake geek girls is because women (especially attractive and confident women) are seen as interesting or cool when they identify as a geek. If a man says he likes video games/comics/sci-fi books/movies it's typically seen as either normal or unmanly/childish. I don't think anyone would ever falsely something about themselves that would have negative connotations.

Hey MRAs, if you wonder why feminists sometimes describe MRAs as bitter men who hate women because they can’t get laid, it’s because MRAs like gui7ri so often EXPLICITLY DECLARE THEMSELVES BITTER MEN WHO HATE WOMEN BECAUSE THEY CAN’T GET LAID.

Meanwhile Byuku blames it all on evil feminists pretending to be geeks in order to make trouble. Because that’s what feminists do.

byuku 3 points 9 days ago (8|5)  My belief is that most of the complaining actually does come from fake geek girls. Think about it - have you ever met extremely hostile and unfriendly geeks? Especially around attractive women? Most geeks I've ever known have been treated like shit by society and thus have a really passive behaviour (they're quiet).  My hunch would be that a bunch of crazy feminist nutjobs walk into a convention, and some geek asks "Hey I notice XYZ on your shirt, who's your favourite character?"  Traditional geek girl responds politely. Fake geek girls say "WHAT? JUST BECAUSE I'M HERE DOESN'T MEAN YOU GET TO TEST ME!!!" and bitches about it to all hell all over the enerets.  And now we're here talking about it. That's how feminism dominates mainstream cultural discussion as it does.
That’s how they get you!

EDIT: Added a sentence to temper and clarify my assertion that men “dominate” gaming.

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Posted on August 20, 2013, in a woman is always to blame, all about the menz, antifeminism, are these guys 12 years old?, bullying, creep-shaming, dozens of upvotes, entitled babies, evil women, facepalm, female beep boop, geek girls, imaginary oppression, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, no girls allowed, oppressed men, reddit, straw feminists, video games and tagged , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 1,130 Comments.

  1. So THAT’s why silver is Ag on the periodic table!

  2. Yuppers. Also gold = aurum, lead = plumbum, iron = ferrum, etc.

  3. So what’s the deal with sodium?

  4. More Latin-based names: Felix is lucky. Dulcie from the word for sweet. Leo (the lion). Clemens/Clement for kind. Dignus for worthy. Peregrine from the word for traveller. Amadeus from the Latin word for love. Dante for enduring. If one is particularly chatty, Facundo (talkative). Fante (from infans) for baby. Renato (reborn). Umbra for shadow (gray-ish).

    You could confuse them by naming one of them Catellus (puppy), Ursino (bear), or Tasso (badger).

  5. Natrium. Had to look that one up.

    By the way, I drew the dragon with knees sticking up past its back and now I can’t figure out how to put a skirt on it.

  6. RE: katz

    Panty-flashing dragon?

  7. Or a skort of some kind?

    I keep checking this thread to see if you’ve posted any kitten pictures, because … well does a person really need to justify wanting to see kitten pictures?

  8. I must say I deeply approve of this whole dragon conversation.

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