John the Other: Feminists who oppose rape memes on Facebook are violence-promoting fascists, and you are too! Probably.
Typical feminazis! Oh, wait.
The MRA hissy fit over Facebook continues. Over on A Voice for (Human) Men, our old friend John “The Other” Hembling offers up his take on the whole controversy, which has roused the usually torpid MRAs to “activism,” and somehow manages to be even more overheated and incoherent than even Paul Elam before him — and at times nearly as ponderous as the legendarily ponderous Fidelbogen as well.
His argument, if it can be called that, is as follows: by demanding that Facebook remove violent images of rape and abuse posted as “jokes,” the coalition of feminists who recently got Facebook to agree to ban violently misogynistic images are therefore endorsing what Hembling has decided is the “strongest signifier of fascism” — censorship.
Now, censorship is not actually the “strongest signifier” of fascism, merely one of many ingredients in the fascist souffle — alongside such things as, you know, authoritarian rule under a powerful dictator, nationalism, racism, etc. (Also they tend to have a thing about uniforms.)
And Facebook’s removal of rape “meme” pictures and the like is not exactly akin to a one-party dictatorship taking over the media and orchestrating massive book burnings. (Heck, I’m not exactly sure what exactly is supposed to make Facebook’s “censorship” any different from A Voice for Men’s recent announcement that it was clamping down on comments that Paul Elam thinks are too “distracting.”)
But even setting all this aside, Hembling’s charges against “Laura Bates, Soraya Chemaly, Jaclyn Friedman, and every their [sic] signatory to their open letter” don’t make a lot of sense. Here’s his grand summing-up of his would-be indictment:
It is a letter calling on the largest social networking site in the world to institute a program of demographically selective censorship; to institute the practice that is the strongest signifier of fascism.
Bates, Chemaly, and Friedman are not merely endorsing violence against those most impacted by it.
Um, how exactly does asking Facebook to take down pictures depicting violence make someone a proponent of violence?
Hembling doesn’t bother to explain this, and blathers on ahead to his melodramatic conclusion:
They are not merely ignorant or indifferent to the foundational nature of free speech to the establishment of all other human rights. They are not merely content to propagate false, fraudulent models of domestic violence which continue the conditions and causes of domestic violence. They are not simply adherents of an ideology of hatred and violence, wrapping itself in the increasingly transparent veneer of false and pious humanism.
Dude, you’re sounding like a stuck record here. You’ve already accused them of promoting hatred and violence — heck, you accused them of promoting violence at the start of this very paragraph!
Hembling — recently hired on to a paid position as AVFM’s Editor in Chief — desperately needs an editor himself. (Not to mention a proofreader.)
Laura Bates, Soraya Chemaly, Jaclyn Friedman are successfully promoting the signifying feature of fascism. They are fascists, and if you support their cause, that of censorship, you may be a fascist as well.
*looks at self*
No, I’m good. Pretty sure I’m not a fascist.
Hembling ends with a surreal:
Thank you for your kind attention.
Dear readers: let me just ask you to ponder the question I find myself pondering every time I read something by Mr. Hembling: Can there really anyone who reads posts like this from him and says to themself, “this makes sense!” Because his posts all seem like histrionic grandstanding to me, filled with startling leaps of illogic I think would be even too much for dedicated MRAs to make.
I can only imagine that Hembling’s MRA fans really only pay attention to the invective, and don’t bother with the (lack of ) logic, and that for them this whole post basically comes down to: feminists are fascists, feminists support violence, feminists hate men, these three ladies are bad.
They certainly aren’t checking his facts — indeed, Hembling’s piece includes numbered footnotes in the text, but he left out the actual footnotes, and links, that were supposed to run at the end of the piece, as is AVFM custom; his post has been up for several days, and no one there seeems to have even noticed the missing footnotes.
Also, Mr. Hembling, if you’re reading this, here’s a little PROTIP for you: if you want to pretend that you guys are, you know, actually against violence, you might want to think about removing that terrorist manifesto from your “activism” section — you know, the one that calls on MRAs to literally firebomb courthouses and police stations. Not really good PR for an alleged “human rights” movement, that!
Posted on June 5, 2013, in "proxy violence", a voice for men, actual activism, advocacy of violence, antifeminism, conspiracy theory, crackpottery, drama kings, facebook censoring rape memes the world is ending oh no, false accusations, figurative nazis, grandiosity, hate, imaginary oppression, incoherent rage, johntheother, misogyny, MRA, none dare call it conspiracy, oppressed men, paranoia, playing the victim, rape culture, rape jokes, slacktivism, the sound of his own voice and tagged a voice for men, antifeminism, facebook, fbrape, men's rights, misogyny, MRA, rape culture, rape jokes. Bookmark the permalink. 272 Comments.
Just to add to the Manboobz group hug - you guys are great! The threads provided me with lots of laughs, fun reading, and music! (seriously, one of my favorite artists was discovered via reading conversations here)
I think, if memory serves me right, BionicMommy and I are in the same state, but I don’t think I’m close to anyone else…
Also, Oskar Kockoschka the Cat is very fluffy and cute; I challenge anyone to deny his cuteness! But, he’s not the friendliest dude. Best to ignore and admire from afar with him, especially if you’re a guy.
@titian
I see him as a steamy BDSM romance novelist. 50 shades of misandry for hardcore masochists. He’s gotta quit hembling so much though if he wants to really make it.
[Argh! I can't find last night's definition of the word 'hembling' to link. Maybe Cloudiah (who came up with it) or Kitteh remembers? It was kind of awesome, and I vote for it to become official feminist language (soon to be of mandatory use on FB, of course. Yay, fascism!)]
Pecunium: “aruba, plain youtube links embed.”
ok, now I feel kinda silly
Aruba - almost 30 more minutes? It’s like Christmas came early.
@mayimoktoo
I missed the love-in last night! Damn you, time zones! Internet hugs to fellow Boobzers.
If anything ever brings you to Nebraska for whatever godforsaken reason, look me up!
Well hello, fellow Midwesterner!
@Briznecko
Hello
We should discuss our friendliness, work ethic, and non-existent accents sometime!
::squees::
Midwest people, I”m in Indiana!
I’m not saying what state I live in on the internet! But I will note that the thing in public buildings that emits cold drinking water is a “bubbler”.
I’m off on the East coast. In the part with all the trees Kittehserf likes, deep in the woods, far enough that I’ll drive for half an hour to get to a store.
Trufax: up here we measure distance in time.
Oh man, non-existent accents! After I moved to my Midwestern city family members in my home state INSIST that I’ve developed some kind of a midwestern accent. What?
…and by midwester city I mean the one right on the border between Kansas and Missouri. I live in Missouri but Kansas is just three blocks away!
flaunce # 3
@ pecuniumIt
“doesn’t say men are less affected, but differently affected; and that the social context means women are more, socially, affected (because the violence against women is more prevalent, and more tolerated)”
I have problems writing english but I can prefectly understand what articles and politicians say. I’m not stupid and higly scholarized.
The problem has a double point of view: one individual and one social. I do not want enter the social issue here and start a flame on who is more or less affected by violence, you say women are more affected? ok. More means that in any case there are also affectedm men. I instead am looking to the other side of the problem: the individual one.
On one side they are banning anti-feminism content that is hard to reconduct to violence incitement.
On the other side if I report a page saying castration is good, men are stupid, bit you boyfriend and so on, they respond me it does not violate fb guidelines. At least in italy, women’s violence is increasing. So media attention should be in all directions. Waiting the day women’s perpetration will overtake men’s perpetration is stupid and incompatible with a ‘bona fide’ egualitarian practice.
This said, it is *personally* offending, and offending all men that in their lives were victims of gender violence. Argumenting how many they are, more or less, is a vicious cycle, a pindaric flight, basically ideological, to reject a hate speech stigmatization on the basis of genital sex of the reporter. This can be intepreted as intentional double standard, since it is possible to apply hate speech contrast rules for both men and women. But *you* do not want this and always shift the topic to social evidence, until the day social evidence will support you. The day after, once exhausted the social fuel, *you* will resort to a new demagogy in order to support your pet unidirectional anti sexism agenda.
I’ll really try not to write here anymore, sometimes it’s easy to say and hard to do.
Bye.
absit injuria verbis
Pics or it didn’t happen.
1/10
Can’t stick to the flounce.
Dude, it’s not a flounce if you COME BACK.
Any one else smell socks? Or are all the trolls who insist they mean to leave, it’s just so haaaaaard blurring together into a ranty mass?
Regarding the group hug, I still plan to eventually stockpile enough sanity to go a US-walking with the intent to meet as many great people as possible. I think it’ll work out pretty well; I know a LOT of great people, and it’ll probably turn into one big monster Manboobzer fest.
In others words, WHAT ABOUT TEH MENZ?
Try harder.
(This is not the same thing as “troll harder”, just so we’re clear.)
Can you just IMAGE how awesome a Manboobz party would be? There would be a tea bar, a corner for knitting and all other types of fiber arts, another corner FILLED with stacks of history books…and all throughout will be ALL THE KITTIES and other lovely animals!
It’s just sooooo hard, and English isn’t my first language, y’all, and sure maybe your numbers and hard data say this, but I’m French so you should have known I was talking about Spain….
Probably coincedence, though. After all, to be an MRA the first prerequisite is being utterly clueless. So we expect them to have that in common.
Downside to a MBZers party:
You just know MRAL would get in somehow. In a funny costume.
And someone would be mixing drinks and then suddenly, lifting up one of the bottles, spot Pell. In fact the bottle would probably be Pell.
You’d be talking to someone, and then suddenly they’d call you a slut, and then you’d realize they too, were Pell.
And then you’d realize.
You were Pell.
—
Well, that or just enjoy the cats and the tea. You people are all quite lovely, in your various ways. It takes the sting out of the vitriol. And seriously, what other place can I respond to insanity in badly garbled verse? Nowhere, that’s where. So thank you all for existing.
@ Howard
Also did you notice how the English in the sign-off was just fine? Get that Febreze ready, is all I’m saying.
RE: Howard Bannister
Yeah, and MRAL would just keep coming back in different costumes every time someone gave him the boot. (David would of course be the bouncer.)
RE: Fibinachi
I do not want Pell to be in my existential crises, thank you very much.
RE: Briznecko
It would be totally brill. I look immensely forward to meeting interesting people in interesting places. Speaking of which, any Arizona Boobzers around?
To Floppy McFailflounce:
Have you actually tried reporting a ‘pro-castration’ post/site to Facebook? Can you grab a screenshot of their response? That was, after all, how the feminist groups managed to create this furor-they got multiple screenshots of Facebook responding to complaints, and coupled them with screenshots of what the complaints were about, and the clear disconnect between the action and the stated policy was enough to force a recalibration on the part of FB. (Please, let Twitter be next.)
If, as you claim, there are ample sites that do the same thing, but targeting men specifically for being men, then you should be able to generate a similar degree of evidence. And, if this should occur? More power to you. Literally. I’m fine with vile, disgusting shit being taken off of Facebook, no matter who it targets. So are the rest of the posters here. So off with you, on your crusade to get actual apologetics for anti-male violence removed from Facebook. Of course, you’ll need to ‘show your work’, as my elementary school math teachers would say-you’ll have to show that there’s images that FB won’t take down, even though their policy says they violate the Terms of Service.
And that’s what the MRM never gets. One reason, when talking about them, we put the word “activist” in scare-quotes is that they never actually do any activism, even casual, straightforward and simple activism like showing actual evidence of the alleged misconduct.
Instead, they just whine a lot, usually in a way that either references their sad or rageful boners, or denies their responsibility for their own children.
Fibinachi: That… is the most terrifying thing I’ve ever read.
How would the other trolls of yore fit into the party?
NWO and Meller would be the entertainment. Tom Martin would be that guy who burst in during a snowstorm, filibustered for ten solid hours, and then vanished, never to be seen again. Eurosabra would be the guy who keeps coming back, even though nobody understands why, including Eurosabra.
Talacaris would be that guy in the corner trying to do entertaining tricks, but is usually forgotten.
Steele would have fifty-seven masks, all of them ill-fitting and doing a bad job of hiding his identity.
A party is always fun.. Godd idea. I know another feminist site(which had separate section for non-feminists) that had a party both for the feminists and the non-feminists and it was a really fun party.
I’m imagining that like the scene from Angels in the Outfield when Christopher Lloyd comes out of the soda cup.
@talacaris:
You can party with the antis if you like. But they don’t strike me as a very happy or fun bunch.
“No, John. You are the Pell.”
NWO wouldn’t make it through the door and DKM wouldn’t try, too busy with “his little ladies lovely”. MRAL, yeah, he might be a problem, pecunium you’d have to be a back-up bouncer // troll spotter. Of course, he’d probably be unable to ignore Cassandra and get booted for being creepy. Pell’s like, the real life version of a Malkavian trying to use obfuscate to pass as a doctor, works well enough until questions from anyone with a clue pop up. Eurosabra would get spotted right quick too, being all creepy and shit. The one that’d worry me? GGG has the potential to not just crash the party, that we can deal with, but go fucking postal and bad shit.
Or any of the MRAs who lurk around here — Minter, Elam, the truly scary one.
Talacaris, learn some real jokes first dude. Or how to juggle, or something actually interesting.
Also, gender neutral bathrooms. Can still have male and female ones if anyone wants them, but another unlabeled one please? (Normally I’d say make them all unlabeled, but I trust you guys not to get all “wtf are you using that bathroom for”…and to toss anyone who pulled that shit)
Maybe a table/area for the “I am not good with crowds, but want to pet the kitties”. And a cat free zone for the allergic. Those Japanese smoking pods would be awesome too (they’re kinda like the old school hair dryers, but come down further and vent the smoke so no one else has to smell it)
Lol, we could find it with craft sales! Kickstarter? (I’m kidding, mostly)
Oh and I’ll make coffee that’ll keep us all up all night ^.^
Argenti, I’ll roast and provide the beans for you
Also, I’d happily bartend. Instead of “I think you’ve had enough,” expect a lot of “Drink a pint of water first and come back.”
Meanwhile, The First Joe would sit in the corner, talking about how even the worst party he could throw would kick the ass of this one.
I’ll happily sit and spin yarns-no, no, the story kind, pecunium’s got the literal kind covered-for the amusement of the crowds.
No, The part was not separate and there were only a few antis, but severals nons and pros
I’m late for guit, but I just have to.
Did you actually read Pecunium’s comment? Because that’s exactly what ze didn’t write! Seriously, if you come in, ask questions and get responses, the minimum to do is to at least read the responses before ranting about how much we trivialize gendered violence against men.
Hint: we don’t support rape imagery against men either.
But you’d know that if you’d spent a few minutes reading.
I’m fine with unlabeled bathrooms at the party; I rather prefer single-person bathrooms anyway, because being in a stall next to someone else always makes me weirdly self-conscious.
Guit: I have problems writing english but I can prefectly understand what articles and politicians say.
No, you can’t.
The problem has a double point of view: one individual and one social.
No, it doesn’t.
I do not want enter the social issue here and start a flame on who is more or less affected by violence,
Yes you do.
you say women are more affected? ok. More means that in any case there are also affectedm men. I instead am looking to the other side of the problem: the individual one.
Ooh… the fallacy of the middle (and a misunderstanding of what I was saying… see my first reply in this comment).
The problem is you said the article said something it didn’t. You didn’t understand it, and came to a false conclusion. That’s the problem.
The rest is bullshit you are using to change the subject.
No need. I can juggle. I guess Talacaris doesn’t need to go to the party after all.
@Maude - I can’t find the Hembling definition with a quick scroll either. I’ll have a proper look later; I have to take Mads to the vet in about half an hour (just a checkup).
Is that a new pic of Charlie?
Hell, plenty of us can knit, or do other crafts, and Pecunium can spin, and watching any of that would be way more fun than anything talacaris could come up with. (I want to see your juggling, tho’!)
@Argenti
Sure. I’d be cool with any combo of bathrooms/ whatever anyone wants to do with the theoretical bathrooms.
@girlofthegaps
1) What rice cooker did you get? I’m in the market for a new one.
2) When you refer to the Golden Dawn as a cult, are you talking about the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn or the modern Greek movement?
I recommend the ones by Zojirushi.
@Pecunium they seem to be the go-to brand, but at the moment I’m looking for the most bang for the least buck. Some day, a Zojirushi with a timer and different settings for different rices would be amazing, but not today *sigh*
After seeing some places with two unisex single bathrooms rather than the usual male/female set, it dawned on me. Why do we even bother gendering single toilet bathrooms? The only difference is a urinal, and you could either do away with that or put one in both rooms. Just another unnecessary gender distinction in a world chock full of them.
Cue the “OMG, teh feminists will make us all use unisex bathrooms! UNISEX BATHROOMS!”
Or people who have a penis could just pee into a regular toilet like most of them already do at home.
I was a terminally shy person and I only got beyond my fear of using public urinals around, like, 18 years old or so. Quite frankly, unisex stalls would be A-OK with me! I would have loved to have them back in my high school days.
I think the only reason they use urinals is that you can cram more in a smaller area. From the standpoint of a landlord it has a certain appeal.
Which is why I don’t see what the point of putting a urinal in a single-occupant bathroom is. If only one person can be in there at a time anyway, why bother?
Urinals do also save water.
@ kitteh
Yes! It’s a new photo of Charlie. He’s still doing really well (trying to prevent me from typing at the moment)!
I hope Mads had a good visit to the vet!
Oh sweet jesus, who the fuck is that person and why the fuck do we live on the same planet.
Katz — they’re a bit costly, but have a 1 pint flush toilet.
Maude, I’m glad Charlie’s doing his kitty work of interfering with typing!
Mads is a bit down and droopy today, though she’s eating all right. I think it’s just a mild reaction to the F3 vaccine.
That, or a play for sympathy.
If Facebook is only censoring images of violence and rape jokes, why are MRAs able to provide screenshots of non-violent, non-aggressive criticism of feminism removed by Facebook for being against their Community Guidelines?
@Alex lots of people have been making that claim here, but none have offered any sort of evidence. Care to be the first?
Actually, emilygoddess, I think the AVfM image* that FB took down did not violate Facebook’s guidelines. It was a dishonest and badly designed piece of crap, but meh, I’ve seen worse. But Facebook has also taken down lots of OTHER stuff, including feminist stuff, that didn’t violate their guidelines. Dudebros think they’re so special, but they’re not. FB is making the right call some of the time, and getting it wrong some of the time.
*For the record, I’m talking about the one that had the tag line “Rape culture is bullshit.” If they’ve had others removed, I haven’t seen them. Also for the record, just for fun I spent about 15 minutes the other day searching for explicitly anti-feminist pages and groups on FB, and found plenty. So there’s hardly evidence of a massive campaign to destroy critics of feminism. But hey, Alex, keep fucking that chicken.
Facebook takes down cancer support sites if they dare show a woman who’s had a mastectomy, so I don’t think the dudebros are in any position to whine about being singled out and how unfaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaairrrrrrrrrrrr it is.