Heartiste: Funny like a clown
Heartiste: A sad clown
Always hilarious: painfully unfunny dudes explaining how women just aren’t funny. Over on Chateau Heartiste, the Heartiste formerly known as Roissy drops some (pseudo) SCIENCE on us all:
[C] hicks dig male status, dominance and personality as much as, or more than, they dig male looks. Men, on the other hand, dig beauty first and foremost, and a woman’s comedic timing, however it might make a man laugh, won’t stir his schnitzel if she’s a dog.
Since women don’t see a benefit from humor in the competition to attract men, their sex, on average when compared to men, has not evolved a strong cortical humor module. Women are better equipped to appreciate humor than they are to produce humor.
Apparently, if you use the same words that scientists use – like “cortical” and “module” – that makes it true!
But there is more to this Old Misogynist’s Tale. As Heartiste explains, it’s cruel humor that women appreciate most of all — in their lady regions. In other words, chicks like dicks:
[W]omen become sexually aroused by men who expertly wield the soulkilling shiv of sadism. …
Cruelty that is delivered with supreme confidence, bemused detachment, and eviscerating precision is catnip to women’s kitties.
Get it? Kitties = pussies = VAGINAS.
Ba-dump-tssh! Heartiste is on a roll.
So let’s see some examples of the sort of masterfully eviscerating humor that makes the ladies weak in their knees and gets their “kitties” excited. (Note: By kitties I am, like Heartiste, referring to vaginas. Exciting a woman’s actual kitties is better done with shiny objects and mouse-shaped toys.)
Anyway, here are some of Heartiste’s examples of cruel humor at its most exquisite, which he has helpfully rendered in dialogue form:
Me: Sweetcheeks, look. That bum just winked at you. He wants to take you back to his cardboard box. [waving at bum] Hi, bum!
Her: [struggling to conceal a grin] Shh, stop that. Stop waving. You’re horrible.
Truly, bum-mockery at its finest.
But he’s only getting started:
Me: You want to take a bus? Forget it. [nodding in direction of obese woman] She ate it.
Her: [looking heavenward] Oh my god, I can’t believe you just said that.
Aw yeah. Suggesting that a fat person has just eaten something comically large: comedy gold!
After some further jests on the topics of male boobs (hmm), the size of black men’s cocks, and raping the disabled (yes, really), our hero is in like Flynn, well on his way to all-caps “TRIUMPHAL SEX.”
The way it will usually go down is like this: You revel in your cruelty. She reacts with manufactured disapproval, often stifling laughter. Her vagina moistens. A wave of hidden shame releases a continuous flow of blood to her vaginal walls, maintaining her in a semi-aroused state all day long. Later that night, the floodgates open and you slip in like a lubed eel.
Yipes. That is about as erotic as Gilbert Gottfried reading from 50 Shades of Grey.
I’m pretty sure the only reason Heartiste can maintain his belief that women can’t do cruel humor themselves is that he’s never heard what they say about him once he leaves the room.
Like this:
Posted on July 12, 2012, in alpha males, bad boys, douchebaggery, heartiste, I'm totally being sarcastic, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, PUA, rape jokes, that's not funny!. Bookmark the permalink. 344 Comments.
The two worst things that people said to my 16-year-old self after my father died of a heart attack (on his 47th birthday) was, “God has a plan” and “God never gives you more than you can handle.” At the time, in my grief, the only thing I could think in response was, “Well, God’s a supreme asshole, then.”
There were already other things that had started leading me away from Christianity at that point in my life (I’m an agnostic), but the bizarre response we got from our church after my dad died was what finally pushed me out completely. At that point I still believed that the community aspects of church were very important. But our congregation treated us like pariahs after his death. They were so uncomfortable with a young widow and her two children that their response was to pretend we weren’t there. It made the whole situation that much worse. The support network that is supposedly provided by a church congregation was nonexistent.
My mother has since left that church and gone to another one. As for me, I find organized religion to be nothing more than social control in which the powerful coerce and manipulate their followers for no other reason than to maintain their authority.
Also, the lesson I eventually learned from my father’s death did not come from the church. And it is that terrible things may happen in life, but it is how you respond, learn, and grow from them that is the true test of your spirit and character. But FYI, “God has a plan” is NOT a nice thing to say to someone who’s just lost a loved one.
I have a fairly similar story, Kladle. When my maternal grandmother died, the prayers were nice enough, but the funeral mass was incredibly painful to get through*. The entire mass was about how it’s lucky she believed in God, otherwise she’d be going to Hell, and you’ll go to Hell too when you die — maybe soon! — if you don’t fall in line like a good Catholic. It wasn’t even about the wonderful woman we had lost. She was a prop, a means to bring in more people of diverse faiths and nonbelievers so that we could be condemned. She could have been anyone, and the mass would have been identical. It sickened me. I was there for my beloved grandma, not for that.
My mom’s grandma died the year mom got divorced. She still considered herself Catholic a that time. I think it hurts her to this day that she was about to go up for communion at the funeral as part of her grieving process and several relatives shot her dirty looks until she sat back down. Communion is not for fallen women, apparently.
Now, when my dad’s parents died, fairly close together, we had both of their services in a funeral parlour, not a church (as they wished). They were Catholic, too, and the services acknowledged and respected their religious beliefs, while still making room for the varied beliefs/non-belief of their family and friends. I didn’t participate in all of the prayers, because gods and angels have no meaning for me, but I felt the love and respect that they showed for our loved ones. There’s no reason a funeral can’t be both religious and inclusive.
*Maybe everybody knows this, but Catholic funerals are typically split into two halves: the prayers, which are pretty much like any other funeral service where loved ones get a chance to speak and pray; and the funeral mass, which is a mass devoted to discussing the deceased.
I am such a terrible communicator, wow. My Dad’s parents wanted their funerals to take place in a funeral parlour. They did not want them to take place in a church. My family respected their wishes. It shows off my pretty awesome writing skills that I made it look like the opposite.
Cloudiah: I have made one. I had to look it up, because I was (incorrectly) calling it a clafoutis (which is it, except that clafoutis, it seems, is made, specifically, with cherries). Now I wish was going to work so I could get one at the bakery across the street from the shop.
My little religious journey is this:
-I was raised Jewish. I pretty much always hated it. It was painfully restrictive, and, in my family, came as part of the package deal with “We’ve got your whole life planned out for you, and all you need to do is execute this plan perfectly.” Being a good Jew was just part of the plan that I was constantly failing to live up to.
Did I believe in the Jewish God? Sort of. Mostly it was irrelevant whether I believed, so long as I followed all the rules and planned to marry another Jew and raise the kids Jewish so they could continue the cycle of awkward obligation.
-In college, I became an atheist. It was tremendously freeing, but eventually, I kind of fell out with other atheists because the religion-mocking started feeling narrow-minded and mean-spirited to me. Any mockery that applies equally to hellfire Evangelical churches and ultra-accepting UU churches-because they’re “godbags” either way-wasn’t getting at the real problem here.
If someone believes God hates gay people, the thing they need to change is the hating gay people, not the God part. If they stay a believer, but start believing God loves and wants them to be kind to gay people, that’s fine too.
-At some point in my adulthood I rediscovered-maybe just discovered-religious belief. What I believe is very loose and includes no particular commandments about behavior (I think God/Gods care about as much if I have unmarried sex as a rock cares if another rock rolls down a hill), but it is a belief. Ultimately, probably an irrational and unfounded belief. But I try very hard to keep it a harmless irrational belief.
-My partner is Christian and uses it to be a better person. He’s kept very strongly to the “love your neighbor” and “practice forgiveness” parts and not at all to the various “also XYZ is an abomination and cast them out” parts. He has a lot of love and patience for others and a lot of motivation to give and volunteer for charity, and Jesus is part of his motivation for that. There’s no question that he’s cherry-picking parts of Christianity based on a liberal morality, but that doesn’t make him not a Christian; it only says that he’s a very particular kind of Christian.
TL;DR: There are a ton of people who use religion as an excuse to be jerks. I get uncomfortable when people go viciously after the “religion” part instead of the “jerk” part.
NWO: This is why we call you both ignorant, and an Anti-semite:
Well, what can one expect from the decendants of the very people who decided to crucify him for their amusement? Who brought us such gems as the talmud, the defining book of the Jewish faith. Worshippers of themselves and gold.
The Talmud isn’t the defining book of the Jewish faith, that would be the Torah, though the Tanakh is close (in that it has the Torah, and the Prophets… what you would call the Old Testament).
And the bit about worshiping themselves and gold??? Christ on a crutch, could you be more classically anti-semitic, you child-leering (he who looks on a woman with lust in his heart is a fornicator, right? Go forth and sin no more), bearer of false-witness who misses the entire point of every biblical story he brings up.
It’s not anyone’s faith that’s being mocked. It’s just that you (along with far too many right-wing, fascistic, religious fanatics) have your boxers in a bunch because someone said something which wasn’t abject, slavish, adoration of your iterations of religion.
Go and sit on a crucifix, for Christ’s sake
How about, Jesus Christ, sweet semen sucking savior? That’s been used here quite often as well.
It has? No, it hasn’t. I’ll bet it’s the first time it’s been used here (more of that false witness you are so fond of bearing).
After all, ridiculing my faith is promoted by Dave,
Nope. Ridiculing your lies, your hypocrisies, your (by the doctrines of the faith you profess to believe) unrepentent sins; those are fine and dandy.
I, for one, happen to dislike simple religion bashing, and blanket statements about it. I’ve gotten into a couple of heated discussions about it here, because of that disagreement.
But I’ve studied religions, and in particular mine, and I can say that your interpretations are, while not completely unique, pretty fucking novel, and your case of the vapors about people using Jesus name, are precious; given how vile and hateful you are; while professing to adhere to a religion which has the central tenet of, “be good to each other”.
I won’t can’t say, because I don’t presume to know the mind of God; and you might reform, but if you were to die tomorrow, I’d expect you to be cast into the Outer Darkness, where there is nothing but wailing and gnashing of teeth; because you are a goat†.
Happily, for me, I don’t believe in an afterlife of permanent suffering (it’s incompatible with a deity of loving nature) so even when I think there is an afterlife* I am not afraid of everlasting torment, and I can be comforted in the thought that I am not trying to damn you to such a thing. But that’s a theological problem you aren’t equipped to handle. I know this because Christ on a pogo stick, you are in a frothy rage because someone didn’t kowtow to your desire to have every last symbol of your faith (a belief which is based on nothing more than that you believe it) treated as if it were factually true, while abusing the same faiths of others.
Fix the beam in your eyes, before you stab at the motes in others.
I’ll accept that anyone here can ridicule my faith and heritage as long as I can do the same in return.
No, you don’t. Because you’ve done this rant before. And you got to be as insulting as you wanted, and no one stopped you; not even Dave (who is even now letting you, just as he let you last time around). So you got what you said you wanted, and you are still bitching that someone, somewhere, said a neutral thing that has Jesus’ name in it, and isn’t “respectful enough”.
So I repeat, you can go sit on a crucifix, and run about 12 volts through it.
†Matthew 25:31-46
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:
*my theism is a weak one, and I am not even willing to say it’s not more than just a framework for apprehending the wonder and joy in the world. I have bouts of agnosticism, but I digress
1) We don’t always do that. Some people don’t get that treatment because nobody likes them. 2) We don’t always do that. Some people don’t get that treatment because there’s too much death going on at that time. When one starts looking at what situations that does and doesn’t happen, one can’t stand by the idea that such actions are ridiculous.
The only way to criticize Christianity without getting called a jerk is to do so without being noticed.
Right.
“Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ” is, (I think? cursory Googling didn’t confirm it) originally a reference to the way someone’s legs would dangle while they were hanging from a cross (although all the depictions of this I’ve seen have him with his legs secured), so it could be taken as mildly nasty. I doubt that most people who use the expression are thinking of it that way, though. It’s become so divorced from the original meaning that it’s hardly offensive — sort of like ‘Zounds’ or ‘Gadzooks’, which started out as blasphemous (swearing by ‘God’s wounds’ or ‘God’s hooks [ie, the nails]) and are now what knights say in cartoons.
I don’t think so. Tap-dancing is relatively new, and for all the various oddities of a grotesque torture becoming the icon of Chritianity, that sort of “dance” is, when it shows up (to do a fine jig between heaven and hell: to use an Irish locution), a reference to “turn off” hanging, which is how public execution was done in England until well into the 19th century: v.r. gur ivpgvz jnf gnxra gb gur gbc bs n ynqqre, naq gura gur ynqqre jnf ebgngrq, fb gurl jrer fjvatvat ng gur raq bs gur ebcr. (ROT 13 for being graphic)
Crucifixion was always done with the legs secured because it prolonged the suffering. Rome was possessed of a twisted morbidity, and enjoyment of making people suffer.
i was raised by atheists and ive pretty much always been an atheist, i guess ive thought a good bit about the possibility of some sort of god existing but it always comes down to, ‘well, i know i dont believe it, so that’s that’
But you’re using that same tactic to try to feel superior to me, too!
…No, seriously, you are.
I dunno, I find “the practices of conservative Christian organizations are holding back advancement and causing widespread suffering in this country” a whole lot more persuasive than “but zombies aren’t real!”
I wanna distinguish ‘jesus isnt real’ which sounds kind of silly, from ‘god isnt real’ which is really just the converse of ‘god is real’ and i feel is a perfectly sensible way of expressing my atheism
LOVE the faux outrage you’re wearing, slavey. But does it come in any other colours?
@pecunium/argenti
i obviously meant ‘converse’ in a colloquial sense and i swear if yall go all debate team logic wank on me…
I’ve been too hard on Christianity before, and that’s wrong of me. After leaving fundamentalism as a teen, I felt some resentment towards people who had taught me “Everything is a sin. You are bad, and you will be burned alive forever unless you do everything and believe everything we say”. I associated all of Christianity with the bad apples I’ve been around in the Bible belt. So anyway, it’s not fair to judge liberal Christians that are accepting of everyone by the actions of the Christian Coalition.
Now as for the sayings “God has a plan” and “God never gives you more than you can handle”, I agree they are hurtful rather than comforting. I know it’s hard to know what to say to someone who is grieving, but it’s probably better to say nothing than to just say a platitude that has unfortunate implications. That’s why when my aunt and others told us stuff like “God saved you” or “God was watching out for you, and he still has a plan for you” last year, it made me feel worse. Why would God save some people and not everyone?
Another platitude that needs to be dropped is “God works in mysterious ways”. I heard that one a lot, too. It’s better than the assholes that say disasters are God’s wrath, but it feels like it’s in the same ballpark.
People who try and use their religious beliefs as a shield to say whatever vile thing that they want about other people are like that kid in elementary school that everyone hated who would stand behind the teacher and flip people off and then feign innocence when the teacher turned around.
You have the right to believe in deity(ies)/religious stuff/engage in ritual, etc.
But hatred, bigotry, legal discrimination, etc….those are not protected by your BELIEF in religion. Those other different sorts of beliefs- and can only really be justified by using religion as a convenient shield.
It’s like my political science teacher used to say in senior year of high school:
“As a Catholic, I like wearing the medallion of my patron saint around my neck, as it gives me comfort and is a sign of my faith. This is like my right to my religion. It does not interfere directly with others, but gives comfort to myself. If, on the other hand, I were to drag a huge wooden cross down the hallway each morning with a thorny crown on my head screaming about how the non-believers are sinners and are going to a fiery punishment in hell, THAT would be infringing on your rights to believe (or not believe) as you wish. Subjecting others to religion against their will is just as wrong as being told that I am not “allowed” to have faith.”
I have never had faith, personally, so I don’t really understand it.
But I do understand the idea of *wishing* there was some big, all-powerful/good/knowing person out there looking out for the humans and keeping them in line. Do you have any idea how great it would be if, any time someone tried to abuse, rape, murder, or victimize someone else, that a big hand would come out of the sky and stop them? Or that the criminal person would be touched by the Spirit and magically not want to hurt others? It’s very, very seductive to think that would be a really awesome universe to live in. But that is not reality, so I have to cope with that fact, and pretending to have faith just doesn’t work for me.
So blah. Wouldn’t it be great if people didn’t think that a right to religious beliefs meant that they had a right to also put every other belief that they hold under the umbrella of “respect my religious beliefs”?
For those atheists here who are also on Facebook, I want to plug a group called Grief Beyond Belief. It provides advice and support for atheists who are in mourning. Good resource.
I’ve got some dear friends who have a toddler. I was over at their house just about bed time one day, and their bedtime rituals include reading story books, telling bedtime stories, and reciting in chorus John 3:16.
I kind of wish they would leave the babby alone to make up hir own mind later, but what can I do about that?
I wasn’t really raised religious. My folks sent me to Sunday school for a bit, but I came home asking about whether our cats would go to Heaven when they died and they decided it was indoctrinating and stopped, so I could make up my own mind.
What I finally decided along about high school was that I am an atheist. I don’t merely assert that the case for God is simply not proven, I actively affirm that there is no evidence for God or any higher power and there’s actually no need for higher powers.
Of course, this then leaves me twisting on the cruel horns of physics and chemistry. I’d like to think I know as much about the cruel indifference of the physics of auto collisions as the next person. The comforting thing is, when we understand why people get hurt or killed in car accidents, we can take steps to mitigate the injuries (seat belts, air bags, crumple zones, designing the engine to drop down and back so it doesn’t end up in our laps, etc.).
Likewise, germ theory helps us stop some of the worst diseases in history. Then it gives us MRSA to kill us, because evolution doesn’t stop. But we’ll solve that, too, eventually.
@Cloudiah- that’s really awesome. Thanks for the suggestion.
However, I would have to say that when people in my life die, it makes me sad because I can’t see them anymore, but the thing that makes me happiest is telling stories about them- remembering them in ways that honor who they were.
All I can say is that I am very damn lucky that my grandmother lived to be 97 and was in full control of her mental and physical faculties and lived at home until she just suddenly died of stroke. I really, really miss her, but I don’t think there is anything that could change that fact.
Seriously, if I could have given her a decade or two of my own time, I would have. She was the most gracious, kind, giving, loving and non-judgmental person I’ve ever known, and she always opened her door to let people know they were welcome. Her house was always having visitors and she always knew the local news from everyone out in the family. If anyone knew how to talk about or help with a problem, it was her.
It kills me that I can’t call her anymore.
I can only hope that I too can be that sort of person to others.
*promises not to go debate team logic on Sharculese*
On (current) topic — “I dunno, I find ‘the practices of conservative Christian organizations are holding back advancement and causing widespread suffering in this country’ a whole lot more persuasive than ‘but zombies aren’t real!’”
Seconding that.
@Falconer- my grandmother was Catholic, but more in the “we’ll live the tree up until Epiphany” than “go to mass and spout scripture” sort of Catholic.
Every night before we went to bed, we’d always recite a very simple prayer together.
“May all the little angels in heaven watch over you and keep you and love you forever and ever amen.”
Even though I am not a religious person, this has always given me comfort.
when my family lost a child to sids my dads parents sent us a clay sculpture of a small hand gripping a larger hard with a prominent scar through the palm. that was pretty creepy although at that point i dont think my dad had yet told them he was an atheist
if david ‘promotes ridiculing’ owly’s faith’ (by allowing those things to be posted) then doesnt he also ‘promote’ the beating of teenage girls by allowing owlslave to keep posting about that?
Unimaginative: Thanks for that bit of dancing jesus.
though I first learned it as a paganish tune, with the references being all to other religions; which was a sort of pantheistic mess.
KathleenB The Emperor Norton may have been a real saint. He was an iconic figure, and SF took him to heart. He, somewhat famously, stopped a race riot by sitting in the street between the whites who wanted to attack the Chinese and reciting “The Lord’s Prayer”.
He’s still well thought of in SF, and known up and down the state (there was a brand of chex-mixey snack which was, “Norton’s” and featured him on the package, when I was in high school, in Los Angeles).
Cassandra: If you like carols (I love them; music so potent an evocative force for me), you should go to Dickens. Not only are there carols, in and about, they are not going to have the one’s you hear on the radio; because they aren’t period. There is a sing along (with a very good choir, doing Gaudete with them is incredible) but the “ring out” at the end of the day is a huge chorus of the performers lining the way and singing carols.
It brings me almost to tears to take part (I work Dickens, when I can).
So too did your clip of, “I vow to thee my country”. The uniforms, and the poppies… shit I’m a mess right now, Christmas Carols and Remembrance Day (and Emperor Norton) Such a wonderful antidote to NWOs bullshit.
Sharculese:
@pecunium/argenti
i obviously meant ‘converse’ in a colloquial sense and i swear if yall go all debate team logic wank on me…
I can’t speak to Argenti, but I’m perfectly willing to be colloquial in a conversation where I think the interlocutor is acting in good faith.
when my family lost a child to sids my dads parents sent us a clay sculpture of a small hand gripping a larger hard with a prominent scar through the palm. that was pretty creepy although at that point i dont think my dad had yet told them he was an atheist
That’s some fucked up shit.
If someone sent me that, I’d lose it. I’m not kidding. I’d be fuming. I’d dare not speak to them for I don’t know how long.
“God’s works in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform”. Ok. Doesn’t mean I have to like it. Doesn’t mean it’s not hard, and painful, and telling someone their grief is all part of some master plan… not fucking on.
That’s someone trying to salve their own pain, but it’s so full of fail. A classic case of good intent, bad action.
This thread jumped from page 1 to page 5 overnight, mostly on the strength of a certain commenter’s Manufactured Outrage Of The Day. Amazing.
(TBH, it might bother me a bit if I didn’t know he was going to get bored with it in a few days.)
Cliff:
Of couse, he and his ilk don’t believe women ever want sex for its own sake, so obviously anyone who fucks him must love him.
That they never speak to him again just means he’s too intense for them to handle.
Cliff:
If you use his definition of “having sex” as “of women, being found sexually arousing by a man” this sentence is literally meaningless, though.
I should point out it’s not the usual definition, or indeed really anyone’s definition but his.
Cliff:
I want my corpse cut up for parts and the rest tossed into the woods (I certainly don’t want it gently deposited in an area of arable land set aside for the exclusive use of dead bodies).
When the time comes, obviously. I hope in 50 or 60 years (or whenever) we’ll be a bit more sensible about not wasting biomass, because I’m an atheist but I quite like Sadhimism.
pecunium:
The Tanakh isn’t really the Old Testament. The parts are in a different order and I think there are slight differences in which books are deemed canonical (not to mention the objections believing Jews would raise to the label “Old Testament”).
op. cit.:
Also, every other story he brings up.
There’s no way to separate this in actual arguments, telling them you don’t hold to their religious views and refuse to entertain them as an excuse is seen as an attack on religion and makes the argument about religion again. Not to mention that teaching hate isn’t incidental to a lot of religious groups, it’s part of the central tenants or mainline practices, and often is implied or necessitated by other sections of the religious doctrine. Also, unless you are willing to play ridiculous nonsensical theological apologism word games, arguing with someone who uses their religion as reason to hate basically requires you to attack their premises in regards to religion. Not to even get into that religion isn’t “just another belief system”, it encourages irrational excuse making by its very structure.
Existing as an atheist and refusing to take part in Christian religious stuff or allow Christianity excused hate against you is more than enough to get you branded evil or a jerk
Christians can call for death, denial of rights, and/or oppression of large swaths of humanity by the millions and yet if an atheist says “Christianity is bullshit”, it’s the latter being a “jerk”? The double standards here are fucking massive.
Hershele: I didn’t say the Tanakh was the OT, I said he’d call it that, The OT isn’t even the OT, as the RC, the Anglicans, the Othodox, all have different books, and different order.
It’s a comparative term for a related set of canonic texts, all of which were collated at about the same time (though subsequent schism has caused the various differences in what is/isn’t canonic in the Christian realm).
i agree with you, here, i but in my experience if you explain it to them a good number of christians can be made to understand how petty they are on this point and the rest were always gonna take offence anyway.
Ah… I see that someone did use a phrase like that… three times. So I was wrong about it not being used (I’m not going to hide behind, “those weren’t his exact words). But it’s not been used “all the time” and not by more than one person.
So still false witness.
The death and oppression come from a belief in God the same way that racism comes from having low melanin. It’s the behavior of the group that’s the problem, not the thing that defines the group.
However I think I’m going to just go ahead and say This Is Not The Hill I Will Die On, and admit that lots of atheists have very good reasons to be angry.
The emails that have been sent to me in regard to the university Safe Spaces program I am working on establishing that tell me I am going to hell are always very politely worded (i.e. no swear words-a number don’t even use the actual word “hell” but euphemisms like, “if you continue on the path you’re on, you will burn for all eternity”).
So, yeah, Christians complaining about mean atheists strikes me as perfect examples of the “tone argument” (not saying all atheists are a marginalized/oppressed group-especially those who are privileged along a number of identity axes-but atheists in the US are a minority group).
Vaguely animistic pagan, raised in lukewarm Presbyterianism as a child, fondest memories of church involve choir because I had a huge crush on the minister’s wife who taught the children’s choir, happy sigh.
@ Pecunium
It really is a lovely song, isn’t it? I love a lot of religious music on a musical level, especially the singing as part of a group aspect. What is “Dickens”? Sounds like some sort of festival?
Reading some of the comments here makes me think that maybe my lack of antipathy towards religious rituals has a lot to do with the specific rituals I grew up with. At my mother’s funeral, for example, her faith or lack thereof wasn’t even mentioned, the minister just talked about people who die moving on to a happy afterlife, with the implication that this is something that happens for all good people regardless of their belief in God, which religious group they belong to, etc. Also, the church that I grew up around is the one that focuses on Lord of the Dance and similarly positive, non-judgy hymns. I was forced to go to church in high school (by the school), and the one I chose was a pleasant place to be with a warm friendly atmosphere* (it was Episcopalian). The sermons were more “hippie Jesus loves all the cute little animals, and you too” and less “believe or burn in hell”. Public expressions of religion in the UK when I was growing up tended to be apolitical and lean more towards the Jerusalem/I Vow To Thee My Country model of community bonding and focus on spirituality as a source of comfort, and less towards the fire and brimstone model.
Part of my Dad’s family is Presbyterian, and I didn’t care for the church they attended at all, or for the High Anglican one that my best friend attended (because the former felt angry, like a less sexist version of NWO’s version of Christianity, and the latter felt cold). Part of my Mum’s family is Catholic, and I liked their church, and their priest. I think a lot of how this stuff hits people on an emotional level (comforting or alienating) is determined by their early experiences with religion, and how positive/negative they were, even if you totally take out the theist/atheist issue.
* The minister who ran the church I went to in my teens was one of the loveliest people I’ve ever known. The first time I ever saw Desmond Tutu speak, that’s who he reminded me of. I went back to visit the town where I went to high school a few years after graduating and went to see him, just to say hi, and he greeted me with a hug and lots of questions about how I was doing and generally a lot of warmth and kindness, even though he had known since he first met me that I was an atheist and unlikely to ever convert (and even though I showed up with purple hair and facial piercings). He was wonderful to all the young people who attended his church, and he’s probably a big part of why some religious rituals feel comforting rather than alienating to me.
I think a lot of how this stuff hits people on an emotional level (comforting or alienating) is determined by their early experiences with religion, and how positive/negative they were, even if you totally take out the theist/atheist issue. - CassandraSays
Yeah, that’s definitely been my personal experience and a part of why i’m an atheist (the rest being it not making sense to me on a conceptual level, and that’s the alienating part for me, rather than the emotional aspect which just evokes apathy more than anything). My experience as a kid was basically the tedium and depressiveness of funeral after funeral with a few weddings spread in between (which I found boring, but at least they weren’t sad), and getting no emotional value from hymns, rituals or the words of the religious leaders. I was bored easily too.
Contrast that with, say, the Lord of the Rings theme, as something that has emotional effect for me (however odd that might be
).
Welp, I’m never inviting Hershele or 2-Man to a funeral. XD
[quote]The death and oppression come from a belief in God the same way that racism comes from having low melanin. It’s the behavior of the group that’s the problem, not the thing that defines the group.[/quote]
In that both are used as self justification? I mean, you missed the point entirely but that’s not the strongest defense.
Hey, I can’t listen to the Legend of Zelda on violin without tearing up.
*Legend of Zelda theme*
Molly, I try not to tsk about the waste of biomass out loud at the actual service.
@Dracula
Legend of Zelda theme on a violin, you say?
NWO: “European culture”? Are you serious? You have nothing to do with European culture, and you know nothing of it. You do not know, nor are you capable of understanding, European art, music, literature or poetry. The Nazi’s — of whom you are an ideological heir — were enemies of culture. You and “culture” don’t belong in the same sentence.
Are you familiar with the cultural cornerstones of the Western civilization? That’s not semi-illiterate Stormfront ravings I’m talking about. Have you read the Iliad and the Odyssey, Plato, Aristotle or Thucydides? Of course you haven’t, because you are a raging vulgarian, a cartoonish yokel who’d rather gnaw his legs off than read a decent book. You won’t listen to the opera because (I’m guessing), you think it’s “gay”, and you won’t read the Greeks because they are too dark-skinned for you. Plus, every writer ever (except of Mein Kampf and Stormfront bullshit) was a seekrit Joo, which is why you dismissed Cirano de Bergerac — which naturally, you’ve never read nor heard of from your fellow pedestrians — as “filthy Jewish propaganda”.
So what is “European culture” to you, anyway? You follow an Eastern religion which centers on worshiping a Jew (whom you have repeatedly called filthy — congratulations!). You espouse the absolute worst of human nature, and I suppose that’s what you call “culture”. You are an EMBARRASSMENT to Europe, if anything.
And why should I care if you call me a “filthy Jew” or accuse me of executing Jesus for amusement?* It isn’t anything that you weren’t saying or believing before. So I really don’t see how that even qualifies as retaliation.
Also, I know breath is wasted on you, but still: How do you think Jesus feels about you using him as a pretext to lash out? In general, give some more analysis to what might or might not offend Jesus. Because right now, it sounds like you are putting way too much meth in your malmsey. Waxing romantic about raping five-year-old girls for wearing bikinis on a beach? Perfectly compatible with being a good Christian, Jesus smiles from heaven. Calling Jesus “tap-dancing”? Oh, nooo, crime against humanity!
=========================
Speaking, theoretically, of executing someone for amusement, crucifixion sounds pretty boring to me. Sure, it’s drawn-out an’ all, but from spectators’ point of view, it isn’t really that exciting. In fact, given that it takes many hours, and sometimes even days, you baking in the Middle-Eastern sun all that time seems like torture for the audience. Now, stoning is a different matter. At least you get to participate.
That’s what I was thinkin’ of.
There’s also this nice string quartet version.
how is babby’s conscience formed
how girl get religious
Cyrano de Bergerac may be degenerate art, but the Legend of Zelda theme is far from it. I declare its composer, Koji Kondo, to be an honorary Aryan!
Wut? Not a gamer here, so maybe I’m missing something, but Aryan? Like, Aryan Nations? This person is an honorary white person? O_o
Thanks for giving me a reaction. The phrases “degenerate art” and “honorary Aryan” were used by the Nazis, whose attacks on culture were recently mentioned by Amused. I was playing with the Nazi’s inconsistency in determining what is degenerate.
What the fuck was that? You’re playing PUA gas lighting games in a thread on a blog where PUAs are clearly not welcome? Fuck you, dickweasel. Go play with Nazis somewhere else.
OK. I will go.
Anyone else starting to think that scrapemind may be an old friend of ours?
I am glad I was not drinking something when I read this.
“Anyone else starting to think that scrapemind may be an old friend of ours?”
Oh gadzooks.
Ugh. I just clicked on Scrapemind’s name, and it took me to his Twitter. Gross. Don’t go there, it’s full of douchiness.
Well I am now.
Eurosabra? He’s a fascist, but he’s not a racist.
VoIP — Mr. Al
And yeah, I rally wouldn’t be surprised.
I don’t think it’s Mr. Al, it’s too restrained. It’s sort of like Simon or Marc, but still, it’s semi-subtle. He wants to play, “let’s you and them fight”. Mostly we aren’t biting. I’m not seeing anything at all productive to engage.
Pecunium — my only experience with Mr. Al was being told that redditers are misogynists because they’re misanthropes (I’m trying to summarize it to something that makes sense, obviously) — he was incredibly boring, but pretty restrained. And you must’ve missed where I challenged scrapemind to guess my gender and he dug up my deviant art — dude’s hit my creep-dar in other words.
I would respond, but it doesn’t seem very important right now. Although now that I think about it….
Nononono! Must stop the internet argument, even if I think I’m totally right and you’re totally wrong!
OT: but zombies!
Mira Grant’s NEWSFLESH trilogy (FEED, DEADLINE, BLACKOUT) is fantastic.
And I don’t read zombie novels
(Don’t have the third, but am now re-reading the first two which I just bought Thursday).
I never saw the “Jesus is a zombie” thing until I started reading over at FTB. It’s….yeah, I don’t see it as a convincing argument, but then it probably wasn’t intended to be.
I for one don’t mind going on zombie related derails.
Any other manga fans out there reading “I Am A Hero” by Hanazawa Kengo? (Minor *Spoilers* in what follows) While a bit slow in the lead up (the slow lead up does contribute to later character building/scenes, but idk it made me a bit frustrated with anticipation), it’s an absolutely brilliant look at the zombie genre (and just absolutely stunning in terms of artistic quality). It’s really a zombie genre fans’ zombie manga, and it manages to be self aware to a large degree without that element of “self reflective for its own sake and the sake of being pompous” quality. It can be compelling horror in some places and absolutely hilarious in others. Also, I like that the protagonist seems to have a mental illness and yet the story isn’t all about his mental illness and it’s not really depicted as making him more violent or anything like that.
Ithliana: And that one finally broke the top 25 of the NYT bestseller lists. I don’t know if Seannan is ever going to tuckerise me. If she does, well it will be interesting to see how I die.
On the other hand, I’ve not gotten around to reading any of her books.
On the gripping hand, she’s up for four Hugos this year.
Wow, looking at this comment thread, you are all a bunch of immature douches. I was actually hoping to see a debate on the blog posting I read, not your bullshit.
I was going to point out that the assertion “chicks dig male status” was not in the least addressed. In my experience it is true.
In fact, there is nothing in this blog that actually attempts to counter anything that the offending author has said go re-read it.
S2c, you make an extremely cogent argument and raise some salient points. (You had me at “you are all a bunch of immature douches.”) You have truly lubed my eel, and stirred my schnitzel. It must be your status that I find so attractive. I hope you’ll stop by again to Rockefeller our oysters, butter our buns, and brown our flaugnarde until the center trembles ever so slightly when touched.
S2c — maybe if you didn’t pick a thread with 300+ comments the current topic would make more sense? I mean, did you actually read all the comments before deciding “chicks dig male status” was not addressed? (And did Ruby say it? Because we’ve done that one to death with her)
And why, oh why, do people come here just to say they’re disappointed? Did anyone fucking ask you? Go find some other corner of the internet, there are plenty other blogs you could be reading.