Russell Brand deals the Feminist Conspiracy a serious setback. But Operation Alimony will prevail!
Uh oh! I just discovered this, currently the top story over on the Men’s Rights subreddit:
Yes, my sisters (and honorary mangina man-sisters), Russell Brand has dealt a severe blow to Operation Alimony, which (as you well know, at least if you’ve been attending the meetings) is our dastardly Feminazi plot to destroy the patriarchy by getting pretty ladies to marry and divorce rich dudes and take all their money.
You may remember our wild revelry when we heard that comrade-ess Heather Mills had walked off (no jokes please) with £24.3 million of Paul McCartney’s man money. And the joyful tears we shed when we heard that Mel Gibson’s ex-wife had (reportedly) scored a cool $425 million in her divorce settlement.
Russell Brand has just spotted a large pile of Katy Perry's money
But today, we shed only the bitterest of tears. We have not only been thwarted, but we’ve also been exposed! Damn those Men’s Rights Redditors and their evil allies at the Daily Mail!
The comments in the r/mensrights thread show that they understand our evil plans all too well. How can we respond to Aetheralloy’s withering critique?
Feminists see the absurdity of their own pushed polices?
LOL no. No they won’t. I’d sooner expect scientologists to ask their psychiatrist if they are in a cult.
But ladies! Do not despair! Russell Brand may have set back our efforts, but he, and his Reddit allies, shall not defeat us!
Ladies, you know what to do. Get yourself all prettied up, hit the town, and snag yourself some rich dudes! Let’s see how many of these guys we can have married off by the end of the year.
Marrying (and divorcing) rich dudes: it’s the feminist way!
I had a
Posted on January 2, 2012, in $MONEY$, antifeminism, bad boys, I'm totally being sarcastic, manginas, misogyny, MRA, oppressed men, patriarchy, reddit. Bookmark the permalink. 624 Comments.
HAHAHAHAAHA! Oh man, I always miss out on the fun. Can we talk about bras again? Also, I can’t seem to pinpoint where Alphalady upset everyone. Can anyone fill me in? =D
This movie needs a title:
Manboobz on Fire
The Manboobz with Two Brains
The Wicker Manboobz
Demolition Manboobz
Marathon Manboobz
Last Manboobz Standing
Manboobzhattan
etc.
Allow me to recap : Alphalady posted here -
http://manboobz.com/2012/01/02/russell-brand-deals-the-feminist-conspiracy-a-serious-setback-but-operation-alimony-will-prevail/comment-page-4/#comment-106304
Money quote, that she didn’t know ANYBODY with low self esteem who was in a healthy relationship.
Also, she had a friend who was a psychologist -
I have a close friend who is a psychologist and she totally agrees. How one sees oneself makes all of the difference in life, for better or worse. And beauty really is in the eye of the beholder.
…
Polliwog points out that it’s great to be positive and learn to love yourself, but saying healthy relationships are only for the properly-self-esteeming is kind of messed up
http://manboobz.com/2012/01/02/russell-brand-deals-the-feminist-conspiracy-a-serious-setback-but-operation-alimony-will-prevail/comment-page-4/#comment-106315
Alphalady defends her point, and then adds that she strongly believes in “The Laws of The Universe” for lack of a better term - Then wonders what on earth she did to get such a strong reaction, despite the fact that we’ve all barely BEGUN to be OFFENDED!
http://manboobz.com/2012/01/02/russell-brand-deals-the-feminist-conspiracy-a-serious-setback-but-operation-alimony-will-prevail/comment-page-4/#comment-106321
Dracula calls such the Just World Fallacy, and notes that it’s a lie
http://manboobz.com/2012/01/02/russell-brand-deals-the-feminist-conspiracy-a-serious-setback-but-operation-alimony-will-prevail/comment-page-4/#comment-106322
I, Zhinxy, noble creature that I am, decided to give her the benefit of the doubt, and explain how “power of positive thinking/ laws of attraction” type stuff has a shaky history when it comes to people who have been abused, people with mental illness, etc. (I leave out that Zhinxy’s buddhist leanings also have a bone to pick with oversimplification and appropriation of kharma and dharma concepts, but I think I mention that later)
http://manboobz.com/2012/01/02/russell-brand-deals-the-feminist-conspiracy-a-serious-setback-but-operation-alimony-will-prevail/comment-page-4/#comment-106328
Alphalady then comes up with the hardcore I WAS JUST TRYING TO HELP! WOW, WHAT IS WITH YOU PEOPLE, I REALLY STRUCK A NERVE! I DO BELIEVE IN THE JUST WORLD FALLACY, IF THAT’S WHAT YOU WANNA CALL IT!
http://manboobz.com/2012/01/02/russell-brand-deals-the-feminist-conspiracy-a-serious-setback-but-operation-alimony-will-prevail/comment-page-4/#comment-106333
And, yeah, you can basically follow it from there… :p
Joanna, I have a recap of what happened with alphalady, but it’s in moderation. Too many links, I think. Bah!
But when it’s unmodded, you have a recap! just for you! It’s like the movie had an intermission and then a “what just happened” reel, or something! \
Also, here’s where alphalady comes back and whines that she’s not going to validate our poor self esteem, which must be why we’re angry. A can’t miss -
http://manboobz.com/2012/01/02/russell-brand-deals-the-feminist-conspiracy-a-serious-setback-but-operation-alimony-will-prevail/comment-page-6/#comment-106507
Man, let a girl go have fondue and wine and movies and sleep and exercise and she misses a lot! So, before heading off to Manboobz-less work, I just wanted to say that alphalady kinda reminds me of my current favorite book:
http://www.barbaraehrenreich.com/brightsided.htm
(The following para may mean nothing to those living outside the UK.)
For me, Alphalady is rendered even more hilarious by the fact that I’ve just been listening to the audiobook of I, Partridge, the Alan Partridge autobiography, specifically the part where he sets up a motivational speaking company. Combine that with the ‘Cosmic Ordering’ (‘I Can Make The Universe Give Me Stuff’) horseshit and I can’t help but imagine Alphalady as a combination of Partridge, Noel Edmonds and David Brent in female form, bedecked in a pant suit and ear mic, strutting around on a motivational speaking stage.
And I’d think that if her psychologist friend was any good (or at least better than the charlatan she linked to who couldn’t be bothered to use punctuation or caps on his advice page), he/she might warn Alphalady that her need to constantly bang on about her own high self-esteem really just makes it look like the foundations of said self-esteem are about as solid as a house of cards balanced on the head of a pin.
It reminds me a bit of someone talking about weight loss: “I lost a bunch of weight on Plan X and you can too, it will solve all your weight problems!” And people respond by explaining that they can’t do Plan X because of food allergies, or they’ve done Plan X and it didn’t work, or their weight is impacted by thyroid problems and changing their diet won’t fix it, or they already have a very healthy diet and they exercise a lot and are still heavy, or they’ve decided to focus on loving their body as it is instead of worrying about weight. And the original commenter is like LA LA LA CAN’T HEAR YOU MAGIC BULLET MAGIC BULLET.
It all comes off as condescending because the person in question is acting as though their individual experience makes them more of an expert on other people’s experiences than those people are themselves. And it perpetuates the shame that other people might be feeling that they haven’t been able to magically fix whatever it is about themselves that they think needs fixing, because there aren’t ever any universal solutions and it’s rude (at minimum) to pretend there are.
I myself have, in the last year, seen a radical and unprecedented transformation in my dating life. It’s possible that it’s somewhat relevant to what was originally being discussed. I haven’t been offering it as an illustrative example, in part because it seems overbearing for a newbie, but mostly because I don’t actually know what changed. Some of it is probably due to changes in self-confidence, but I wasn’t aware of the improvement as it happened and I don’t know what I can attribute it to. It certainly isn’t the case that I one day magically fixed myself, and whatever combination of factors worked for me is unlikely to be applicable to other people.
Niki - hah! I recd that to her when I was still giving her the benefit of the doubt! It’s fabulous, isn’t it?
Indeed. It’s like boasting about one’s IQ mid-argument, as though that somehow clinched everything.
Not that anyone round here would actually do anything that crass: it was just a hypothetical example.
I see a new class of students has come to manboobz for the spring semester. Looks like the alphalady class is learning about self esteem…
Shit, I go to bed and miss Alphalady really showing her ass, and corset talk.
Well, I’m home all day after more dental work, so let’s see where this movie goes now!
I don’t like to play this card, but I happen to, you know, actually be a professional therapist, and the notion that people with low self-esteem can’t have healthy relationships is utterly false. In fact I’m quite suspicious of very idea of “healthy” vs. “not healthy” relationships; to frame the issue that way is a gross oversimplification. Relationships, like people, are complicated. Aside from obvious red-flag issues (i.e., abuse) I try to be very careful about judging people’s relationships. What works for me may not work for them and vice versa.
You know that worst way to help someone feel better about themselves? Tell them how great your self-esteem is and if they only acted like you they would feel better about themselves.
Growing up as a teenager while all my privileged classmates were doing what they do I was hanging around my gay uncle and his friends. I certainly didn’t feel like one of the gang at school and was often teased because of it (that and I dressed differently then anyone else, my own way which tended towards a cross between goth and punk). I’m not sure if I ever had real low self-esteem (if I did I’d think I’d have made an effort to fit in) but as a young adult in the business world no matter what I was wearing I felt that I didn’t fit in.
My husband has always suffered from mild depression. Yet the two of us are happy and healthy together.
Also I agree that someone who has to tell you they have great self esteem probably is hiding a shit-load of unhappy
For some reason I thought Alphalady was HINDU. I guess not if the IPs don’t match.
Damn it, I went to sleep and missed the “you’re all just jealous” argument.
Yes, Alphalady, we’re all so, so jealous. And guess what made us jealous? All of your negative energy, that’s what. You should think about that.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to toss all my antidepressants in the garbage disposal, because clearly I don’t need them if I just think positively enough!
Man, I missed the bra discussion!
I’ve been measured at every place I could find - different answers, all of them wrong. Finally went bra shopping with a friend who had been through the same thing. Discovered that I should be wearing about a 38DD, rather than the 42C I had been. I’m more comfortable, my clothes fit better, and - oddly enough - for the first time in my adult life, my seatbelt lies correctly.
(During this, I got body-shamed at a Lane Bryant of all places. The saleslady told me that I should come back after I had stopped “doing that to [my] body” - breastfeeding! - and maybe I would fit into their bras.)
It seems completely counter-intuitive to me. Provided both partners are sympathetic to each other’s needs, I really don’t see why low self-esteem should be an insuperable problem. Almost any relationship is going to have its dark patches at some point.
Oh seriously not cool, Leely )-:< what a terrible thing to say to you. This has just been the thread of really mean things to say.
My personal experience with depression and dating (which won't necessarily reflect the experiences of others with depression/similar disorders, though no doubt I would be able to understand everyone's experience if I were only married) is that depression can complicate things. But depression can complicate anything, like buying groceries or taking a walk or bird watching or one’s relationship to cereal. That doesn’t mean depressed people should just stop doing all of those things. And of course, having someone who loves you supporting you and accepting you as you are through the hard times can be a huge source of strength.
Ugh. It’s awful she said that to you. I preferred nursing bras for the convenience of the flaps, but I think regular bras should also be fine for nursing moms. It’s also backwards logic that a woman has to “fit into the bra”. The truth is that the bra should fit the woman.
@ MRAL: Everyone seems to find my presence so offensive..
No, I’d revise that to say that when you backslide to the types of attacks you made when trolling, then you are being offensive. The responsibility is on you, and you need to recognize that. You told us yourself that you have issues around romantic relationships because of your own insecurities, and the “women are all elitist and can get anything they want and are all happy and screwing me over” is a REAL issue you have (which, ditto above, has nothing to do with your intelligence).
And on one level, I find it really strange how hotly you defend the fact that some women don’t find the MEN you think so hot/attractive (though urtotesnotgai) weird-I know you explain it by the “if they don’t find that dude hot, I’m doomed,” but that’s where you really need to get a grip on reality: different people of all genders and sexualities are drawn to different people for different reasons.
ANd ‘celebrity’ status even without all the apparatus they have to polish themselves up for public consumption gives perfectly normal looking people HAWTNESS because, celebrity.
I hardly even know who Katy Perry and Russell Brand is (didn’t he voice some character in some animated film?), I find neither of them sexy (for one thing too fucking young), and hell, I’ll take Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan in their Xmen roles over the first class hottise that most of (a demographically younger than me fandom) is sqeeing about.
I just hope you don’t end up the 45 year old man still pathetically trying to get a 22 year old to bone him.
Actually, come to think of it, I know someone who suffers from severe depression - we’re talking days and sometimes weeks of black despair, the symptoms of which are described in detail on her Facebook wall in lurid detail. And yet her marriage seems rock-solid.
Handily, her husband has the patience of a saint, a by-product of the all too evident fact that he absolutely adores her, and rates her far higher than she does herself.
@ Quackers:
On self-esteem: I feel you, it is super super hard. In the past year or so, I have been through a lot of body changes and it has been hard to keep in mind that my body is awesome and beautiful (and the fatness doesn’t help). What I have found to be most helpful is to take time every day to compliment yourself on something you did or something you’re proud of. Like, for me, I would tell myself about how much I love my legs, or my shoulders, or whatever body part was making me happy that day. Or if I had a kickass dance or pilates class, I would congratulate myself on how rocking my body was for supporting me through that intense workout.
Start small, like, maybe you like your smile? Or you have a flattering hairstyle? Or your butt looks good in your jeans? Whatever. Take some time, look at that part in the mirror, and just love the shit out of that part. Make that time judgment free and just love whatever it is about your body that you love. If you’re a theist, remind yourself that you’re beautiful because you’re created in God’s image (and if you’re not, remind yourself that evolution created a totally awesome body out of carbon and stuff, which is pretty neat).
Fat activists like The Rotund have a lot of great stuff to say on positive body image that can be applied whether or not you are fat. I would suggest you go comb through her archives. Hope this is helpful! It’s a long and scary process, but it’s totally worth it. Because as you build body acceptance and love your body more, you inevitably treat it with the respect it deserves.
Heavily seconding this. My depression was sub-clinical until the first round of nasty PPD. My husband’s support has been crucial, especially as other parts of my support system failed badly.
I’m so glad you had someone to help you through that, Leely — and that you were able to parse that incredibly awkward sentence I wrote! Proofreading is your friend, Viscaria.
For the record, my last partner’s emotional abuse and my depression fed off of one another until I was in a much, much worse place than I would have been if I’d experienced an episode while single; but that’s not because I was stupid enough to think I could date when I was not “thinking positively” enough. It’s because he was an abuser who chose to take advantage of it.
@Whetherby
Actually, come to think of it, I know someone who suffers from severe depression – we’re talking days and sometimes weeks of black despair, the symptoms of which are described in detail on her Facebook wall in lurid detail. And yet her marriage seems rock-solid.
Handily, her husband has the patience of a saint, a by-product of the all too evident fact that he absolutely adores her, and rates her far higher than she does herself.
Yes, exactly. Relationships provide support through difficult times! Who knew?
Frankly, I think “self-esteem,” however one defines it, is overrated. I mean, having a reasonably positive self-concept is usually desirable, but when it comes to relationships, there are many qualities that are at least as or more important: empathy, self-awareness, capacity for insight, willingness to compromise, emotional self-regulation skills, etc, etc.
Is self-esteem important? Sure. Is it the sine qua non of healthy relationships? Absolutely not.
God, I didn’t want to get into this last night, but I will say that part of the reason Alphalady’s comments about self-esteem and relationships really resonated with me (not in a “Wow, that’s so wise” kind of way, but in an “Auuuuuuughmphg, not this again” kind of way, maybe) is that every single relationship I’ve been in that meant anything to me has involved some long-ass conversations about why I would be so much cooler/more attractive/easier to date/sexier/whatever if I just had some fucking self-esteem, dammit, why can’t I see that and just be more confident or whatever? I’m left with a residual feeling that that very well may be true in my case, but goddamn, how could anyone not know that having that conversation just makes me feel like shit and makes me even less self-confident than before.
This is, of course, just my experience. I’ve often wondered, though, if that’s a controlling move (“You’re not good enough because you don’t have high self-esteem” vs. maybe … giving a compliment), or just the natural outcome of a person with low self-esteem trying to date, or a sign that dating me is its own special challenge, or what. In any case, CB, it is very eye-opening to read your take on it.
I’ve often wondered, though, if that’s a controlling move (“You’re not good enough because you don’t have high self-esteem” vs. maybe … giving a compliment)…
I think you’re right, it is quite often a controlling move. One of the most commonly used gadgets in my father’s emotional abuse toolbox was putting people down for not being confident or capable enough, thus making them feel even shittier about themselves.
Or, in the words of Homer Simpson, “Stand up for yourself, Poindexter!”
People don’t like having you around when you’re attacking them for bizarre things like not being especially attracted to Russell Brand, MRAL, or insulting random girls you meet at parties for having sex with other men. It’s not about the other people - it’s about you, and how you’re acting. You can stop it, and have everyone be nicer to you again, or you can keep it up and keep feeding off that negative energy, but I will note that feeding off negative energy didn’t work out very well for you before.
@ Bee- Yeah, I have totally been in that place with romantic relationships. For me, the insult was that I was too eager to please, and that ironically made me even more eager to please by plastering on a veneer of strong! independent! woman. I later decided to identify it as low grade emotional abuse. It does SUCH a number on your self esteem, and it’s total bullshit.
lol @ lots of things on here but sorry, i don’t even post much, i DO find bra size talk somewhat empowering though! the whole de-mystifying thing as mentioned before. This culture at least is really really weird about breasts and it’s good to know that a majority of women have had some difficulty with em and they’re no one has magic whipped cream squirting ones like ms. perry (to bring the conversation back to the op haha)
also when mral said “oh suddenly everyone has big tits” just made me go “whaa?” as if it was an uncommon thing or something. once again, culture, weird!
Hey, my recap of the alphalady thingy is up and out of moderation! Everybody can scroll up and it’s like the dvd menu of a subplot of the movie! or something!
@Bee,
You know, Bee, I think the problem you describe isn’t a function of your self-esteem so much as it’s the other person’s insecurity with your perceived lack of self-esteem. I mean, I don’t know your specific situation, but secure people don’t generally badger their partners about having low self-esteem; instead, they show the other person, through their words and actions, how much they mean to them (augh, pronouns!
). Showing appreciation for a partner’s positive qualities, and acceptance of their flaws, goes a long way, IME, towards boosting both the partner’s self-esteem and the quality of the relationship as a whole.
I’m sorry that you had to experience the “you just need to have more self-esteem” lecture from intimate partners, since such conversations are seldom very supportive or helpful. It’s like telling a depressed person that they just need to cheer up or have a positive attitude. If they could have done it, they would have done already. Instead, it just make a person feel worse about themselves, since the implication is that the solution is really quite simple, when, in fact, it’s not.
(Also, I don’t mean to presume to analyze your relationships; I’ll refrain from further comment if you like. It’s all good.)
Great work zhinxy! I think all of these large threads should have nice summations like yours linking to key posts – once there’s more than about 10 pages of comments it becomes a real pain going back later and finding a particularly juicy posting.
On page 2, Lauralot is the among the first to jump in with a bra size at MRAL’s “[Katy Perry] still has big tits”, and CassandraSays also posts, prompting MRAL’s “f course everyone suddenly has big tits”. Just a little further down the page Laura links pics of her Wonderwoman cosplay embodying the bespoke 30DDD corset.
On page 3, Cassandra kicks off with the average bra size of women in the UK being 36DD, and she, Polliwog and Leni discuss bras from Freya.
After the MRAL sock post on page 5 and the start of the Alphalady meltdown part of the thread, the bra discussion really kicks off on page 6: VS, Ahh Bra, bras from Bravissimo.com, and derisive comments about Spanx pantyhose.
Being a non-US/UKian I can’t help blowing my own trumpet for adding a useful link to a bra-size computer for countries that use different size schemes (85b.org), and also has a page explaining why the cup sizes go strange after about D (some manufacturers go straight from D to E, while others have one (DD) or two (DDD) sizes comparable with E or F); the link further down the page added by mocking lurker seems a bit buggy.
Finally, Need to know then totally rules the page with an awesome everything-you-need-to-know-about-corsets-but-were-probably-afraid-to-ask post.
Thanks, Dracula and M Dubz … it’s nice to know that it’s not just me this has happened to! CB, no need to refrain at all! I’d never really thought of it that way; it’s good to get feedback that puts things in a different perspective. I really appreciate your insight — I don’t want to go into too much detail/derail here, but it lends a balance to the situation that seems more appropriate to me.
Relevant?
I’ve never watched Jimmy Kimmel before. Are his questions always so dull?
My god, that interviewer is so boring! It sounds like he’s phoning in his questions from Dullsville. And yay, Russell Brand’s moobs gets out-cleavaged by Christina Hendricks (I enjoyed your previous CH theme Spear)!
Quackers: I don’t know if you’re still looking for input — if not, then please ignore this huge monster of a post — and I don’t know if any of these will help you, but these are some articles/blog entries that really helped me start to work on my self-esteem. I do, of course, still have some pretty crippling moments of self-doubt, and I still struggle to stop myself from saying nasty things to myself. It’s really a long and arduous process, not like alphalady seemed to imply. It takes a lot of work to try to get more self-esteem.
What someone earlier on in the thread said is a good suggestion — finding something you love about yourself and taking time out of your day to compliment yourself on it works wonders. Try finding something new every day. And don’t just focus on physical features — like whoever-it-was said (sorry, I forgot to check the name and I ain’t going back into that mess of comments to find it
), sometimes think about something you did that you’re proud of, that you think you did awesomely. Don’t just focus on your looks.
What it’s got a lot to do with is training yourself to think more positively. Even if you have that self-doubting voice that shoots down your compliments, ignore it. Or if you think you’re hyping yourself up too much — thinking it isn’t REALLY that big a deal that you managed to make the most sales in the day or your butt looks fabulous in those shorts — shut up and do it anyway
Starting to force yourself to say nice things to yourself eventually makes you actually… kind of believe it! And then actually, yeah, you DO believe that! You ARE awesome!
It isn’t magic, it doesn’t happen within the span of a week. It takes a very long time and even, as I think dracula pointed out, one can have overall good self-image but also still have some pretty strong self-doubts as well (I’m a good example of this). You’re never going to think you’re totally awesome 100% of the time. I don’t think anyone is like that, really and truly. But it can definitely help you slowly build up your confidence and make yourself happier with who you are.
Anyway, onto the article/blog/things. These are aimed at young people, age 13-25, and also geared more towards women, and I don’t know if you fit within that, but even if you don’t, this is pretty universal stuff, I feel.
The following one is to do with body image, if you’re having issues around there. It’s funny, there is a lot of “love your body!” stuff out there, but I found this article particularly comforting, I guess because I know that the author is such a strong, wonderful, intelligent lady, I find it kind of comforting to think that even she feels like this sometimes.
http://www.scarleteen.com/article/body/life_lessons_from_the_third_stall_on_the_left
And another on body image
http://www.scarleteen.com/article/body/seven_ways_to_love_your_body
The next one also really resonated with me because it’s about being disappointed in yourself for not being perfect/not achieving something to the standards you hold yourself too, which I get… a lot. So it’s more about self-confidence around yourself as a person, not body image.
http://www.scarleteen.com/blog/heather_corinna/2011/11/10/losers_can_be_awesome_a_lesson_brought_to_you_by_the_chicago_cubs
This is also a good forum thread where people explain what makes them feel good about themselves, which might help you start to think about things that make you feel good about yourself. That way you can focus on doing those things more, or whatnot.
http://www.scarleteen.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/50/t/000014/p/1.html
Body image haikus always make me happy
http://www.scarleteen.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/50/t/000005.html
(If you notice this funny trend of scarleteen links, that’s because… I utterly love that site, and I used to volunteer for them, so I know the posts inside out and have them on hand)
As I said. These are not magic fixes, and I don’t know if they will help you. Just reading them won’t make you feel better about yourself. But I’m hoping that at least one of them will give you some ideas on where to try starting off, as they did for me.
er… ps. I was formerly known as herp derp but then I went and made a blog on wordpress so I am now hotairgenerator. Hi :B
Quackers: I made a big long post with lots of links talking about ways to start working on better self-image, but of course because of the links you’s gonna have to wait for the post to come out of moderation
And I’m really sorry if you were no longer looking for input on the situation. I just figured I’d chip in since I’ve worked with people around this and knew a bunch of links off the top of my head that might help.
OH NO IT’S ALL IN MODERATION ;_;
Leni, sorry, that comment of mine was because I thought someone was referring to alphalady by your name and I was wondering why; then I realized I’d misread the comment and I edited my comment and left the “oops” remark.
@hotairgenerator
Thank you for making that post, it’s through moderation now
I will definitely check out those links. I read the first one and it was great! The reason I don’t bother complimenting myself often is because I don’t really believe what I’m telling myself. There are times when I’m happy with my appearance and I’ll say to myself “oh you don’t look so bad” or something but it rarely lasts. However like you pointed out, its a long process and I know I’m probably not trying as hard as I could. I think its because I went through a long ugly duckling phase and got out of it not too long ago, yet I’m still stuck in that mode of thinking that I am. I will now say nice things about myself and force myself to believe them though. Thank you for the links and the post, I appreciate you taking the time to write it! 
@M Dubz
Thank you for the advice! I think I’m going to have to just accept my body for what it is. I’m not small, neither am I short. Genetically all the women in my family have not been obese but just wider overall. Even though I lost weight I still have this body type and unless I go in for some major plastic surgery its not going to change so I just have to accept it for what it is. Like I mentioned to hotairgenerator I don’t really bother to compliment parts of myself that I like because I don’t believe it, however I acknowledge that I’m not trying hard enough too so I will do that more often from now on!
Caasandra, I know it was a long way back, but thanks for the recommendations for Freya. When I’m done nursing this new baby, I’m going to invest in a couple of nice bras that actually fit. I’ve been coping with 44DD, since those are the biggest you find find in the stores, but they never fit right. Followed a sizing guide online & come to find out I’m more like a 40J. Ugh. I wish it were easier to find larger bras that don’t cost nearly $100 each.
@ Skyal - No problem! And ugh, you must be so uncomfortable, that sizing is way off. I’m not sure why so many stores persist in pretending that the only bra sizes in existance are 34-38 A-C, but it can’t be doing any good for the health of all the women who’re wearing bras that don’t fit because they just can’t find their actual size in stores.
I’d recommend buying multiple sizes initially and planning to return the ones that don’t fit if you’re ordering online, until you know what your size is in specific brands. They don’t quite fit me right because my torso is too short, but I’ve heard good things about Fantasie and Panache too.
Also, AlphaLady, fuck you. Seriously. I’ve never had confidence or high self esteem in my life and likely never will, and you think that automatically means that not only can I not have a healthy relationship, I should just be alone until I can magically muster some confidence? Funny how being alone actually made me feel even worse about myself. Oh, and I guess my husband of 15 years should be alone too, since he’s seriously lacking in self confidence as well? Fuck that. We have a great, very healthy marriage with all the usual ups & downs that go along with being married for as long as we have, plus the added stress of being around each other 24/7 most of the last 15 years between working from home & being on disability. We’ve probably spent more time in each others company than most couples who’ve been married 3 or 4 times as long.
How dare you. Honestly, I’m not sure whose more arrogant, you or the regular trolls in thinking your opinions and experiences are the only ones that matter and just because YOU had fucked up relationships when you had low esteem, everyone else must. Talk about fucking bullshit. Your experiences and your therapist friends experiences do not even remotely cover all of human experience. Talk about using anecdata to justify some really wrong headed, nasty ideas.
Cassandra, I’ve mostly been in nursing bras or stretchy sports bras (or no bra, I actually prefer being braless, which I’m told is really weird for someone my size, but there’s no way I’m doing that in public!) for the last 10 years or so. But yeah, trying to wear a normal bra is very uncomfortable. The problem is the first 2 are incredibly unattractive, it’d be nice to have even one nice bra to wear on occasion.
I have a really short torso, too, I’m only 5′, so they probably wouldn’t work for me. Definitely need & deserve something nice in a year or so, though.
I guess it depends on whether you intend to get something with an underwire. The issue for me with underwires is that if the center gore where the wires meet in the middle at the front isn’t really low it digs into my sternum, because my torso is so short, which is very uncomfortable. A lot of the Freya plunge or balconnette styles work for me, whereas the Fantasie ones I’ve tried have gleefully stabbed me in the sternum, hard enough to leave bruises.
“It wasn’t enough. You didn’t clap hard enough. Tinkerbell’s dead.”
Ahem.
Anyway:
I have my little eyeballs (all three) on this place: Ms. Martha’s
http://www.corset1.com/
Haven’t bought yet, but I have tried on and liked, at Folsom one year. They seem to be the lowest-price place that makes quality-to-order, by local consensus that I know of, anyway.
Crap. Stupid formatting. That was, obviously, in response to the question of where to find good custom-made corsets, which I tried to c&p as blockquote but it didn’t take.
/
” I wish it were easier to find larger bras that don’t cost nearly $100 each.”
I’ve done okay ordering via Roaman’s or Jessica London, especially when they’re having one of their eight gazillion sales. Admittedly finding the right fit through mail order has still been a bit hit or miss, but they do take returns and exchanges, and some have worked out pretty well. I forget what I last paid, but it was well under $100. I don’t think I’ve even paid half that for a single bra, ever. Maybe I misremember, but I’m pretty sure.
Skyal, congratulations on the new baby! I have 6 more weeks to go myself.
Someone gave me a few nursing bras and they are super-comfortable. But I find maternity clothes in general to be really comfortable. I kind of wish everything had elastic waistbands XD
Quackers: Don’t be hard on yourself — many, many people struggle with confidence issues (as has been made obvious by everyone getting pissed at alphalady for her stupid assertion about staying completely away from relationships if you do), I don’t think it’s about “not trying hard enough”. I think it’s about finding the right thing that works for you in boosting your self-confidence, and about actually taking the first step in feeling that you’re actually worth taking the time out of your day and the effort to have good self-esteem. When we have so much other shit to do in our lives, it can be pretty hard to go “no, yeah, I really need to take the time out of my day for myself” even for people who don’t have major self-esteem issues. So for those of us with, it’s even harder.
And I absolutely hear you on not complimenting yourself because you don’t really believe it. I’m guilty of the same thing — I know I still say nasty things to myself and don’t give myself any compliments, when I should. It’s really hard to do so when you truly believe you have nothing to compliment yourself on. But this is what I meant by it having to be about training yourself — even if you don’t really believe what you’re saying, compliment yourself anyway. Get used to complimenting yourself and thinking positive things about yourself, and eventually it can begin to affect how you really feel about yourself.
It could also help to ask a good friend to give you compliments every so often — one who you can trust to not give you back-handed compliments that end up making you feel worse than you did before — because even though self-esteem does come more from within you, like the third-stall-on-the-left article said, it is okay that other people’s opinions make you feel better about yourself. It could also help in that hearing someone else say positive things about you can help you to start thinking that maybe you do indeed have good things about yourself. You might find it easier to believe compliments coming from other people than ones coming from yourself.
Holy crap this thread was certainly one of the more exciting troll-fests. I’m going to ramble into the ether; hopefully it’ll be interesting for someone (with the patience to read my novel).
Alphalady: you need to step back and read what people have said to you, if you are actually here on remotely good faith. The point about how confidence can be transformative? I’ll certainly agree on that. The fact that getting out of an abusive relationship kickstarted you gaining more confidence? Great for you! Getting so enthusiastic about something so positive for you that you erase other people’s experiences, and get so far off the path that you stray into victim blaming? NOT OK.
Think about it. If I take you on good faith it seems likely that your experiences with positivity were such an amazing, life-changing step for you that you want everyone to experience it. But you are not listening. You are not everyone; everyone is not you.
I have depression and an abusive upbringing: I have had various eureka moments that have each helped me drag myself out of the cycle a little bit. But it is a continuous struggle and while I want to be less pessimistic I am a naturally cynical person.
As an example, exercise (muay thai in particular - I feel like my body is made for it) and diet help a hell of a lot when I can keep it together. When I’m managing to keep the dark side of my psyche quiet it feels so awesome I want to help people see that there must be SOME sort of exercise that makes them feel this good! It doesn’t have to be stinky old running; it can be surfing, meandering by the sea, rock climbing, anything.
I honestly think people get stuck in the idea of they SHOULD go to the gym/run/cycle/whatever and I want to help them find what feels great for them. But I know how much I hate being preached at and will never, ever be one of the judgemental arseholes that float around the internet telling people if they just get fit they won’t need antidepressants. Or whatever. And that is basically what you’re doing.
MRAL: I find it so bizarre to hear/read you go from fairly reasonable to shit stirring or outright ranting between one comment to the next. I don’t know or care if your IQ is extremely high, but you should be smart enough to think “I’m getting angry, if I want to actually engage in this conversation I need to take a breather.” Due to your history you do have a higher standard to uphold, and if you want to be taken seriously you need to just not ever give in to the urge to call people bitches or tell them to stick x up their arse. Sorry, that’s how it works.
Also can you please try and genuinely accept that most people, men and women and genderqueer people, have individual standards of attraction? There are people who are just gorgeous in the traditional sense, and people who are just unfortunate (though I think very few people are actually “ugly”). But it honestly, really, doesn’t mean that your average person rates people by an objective scale when looking for sex, a relationship or friendship. Some people are very picky about their personal scales and some people’s personal rating for attractiveness does resemble what magazines have fed them. But in my experience they are not the majority.
I personally have a thing for tall, skinny, geeky, effeminate men. So yeah, I lust Noel Feilding so very much and Russell Brand - I was indifferent until I watched a bit of his stand up, and an interview with Dawn French (if you like him and haven’t watched it YouTube it! That and him interviewing a white supremacist; it’s so great) and pretty much fell in love with him. I can even forgive his jock style radio shows, though it burns.
I love pretty soft-butch girls, and to be honest any woman that’s attracted to me. lol But despite both these “types” I have, my attraction to individuals is all over the place because looks are only very tangentially involved. I have to be physically attracted to them but I’ve never met someone who’s brain I lusted that I was not attracted to based on looks.
The most recent crushes I’ve had (I’m in a long-term monogamous relationship so crushes only sadly) are a slim Chinese woman, a shapely blonde USian woman and a butch be-dreaded woman. A tall muscular man, a short (5’6″) fat white man and a short slim Bangadeshi man.
If you can just try letting go of the idea that all women are judging you all the time, and finding you wanting, life will be less stressful. I have a real problem with feeling judged, and am quite nervous of women I don’t know, but goddamnit I know they are people just like me!
And stop saying you’re ugly. Christ. I saw that photo you posted ages ago and you are not a “2-3″. WTF? If we have to use numbers, I’d say maybe a 6? I dunno, I don’t do that. But please try and live with the feelings of inadequacy, work around them, rather than giving them all the power. You’re not alone and you are your harshest critic (believe it or not
/tl;dr
@Lauralot”Alphalady, how do you feel about Madame Alexander dolls?”
Since you asked, never owned one, nor was interested in owning one.
Just popping in to say thanks again for the comment hotairgenertor! <3
Victim blaming? Interesting…
Your words, AlphaLady, with my emphasis:
What this paragraph suggests is that you escaped abuse simply by choosing to no longer put up with it, and that this is something anyone could choose to do. That means anyone currently experiencing abuse has the option of leaving, and has simply chosen not to take it. They are still being abused because of their own behaviour. It’s pretty classic victim-blaming.
I’m glad that you’re no longer in an abusive situation.
Alphalady: They are being hostile because you are being an arrogant, passive-aggressive, asshole.
I’m sorry if that hurts your feelings, but I am positive that’s the reason. You have no real clue as to what self-image, and self-esteem really are, and confuse being aggressive with being self-confident, and conflate a lack of profanity with a lack of impropriety
In addtition you condescend to pretend you can insult people as you deign to apologise for them not understanding the love and care with which you meant your insulting turns of phrase.
I can’t imagine why an intelligent person, full of sensitivity and care for her fellow beings needs help in comprehending something so plain to the meanest intelligence, but since you saw fit to ask, it seems only proper that I should lend my meagre talents to making things more clear to you, and so, with all the good feeling in the world for you; and pride in the ways your improved self-esteem has made you so much better, caring, and more sensitive to the needs, frailties and feelings of others, I remain your faithful and attendant servant, and hope this is received in the loving and generous manner in which I intended.
“but I am positive that’s the reason.”
If you’re positive then the universe will make it true ^_^
Kyrie: Spotted that, did you?
Emmendation: I don’t think, “the Universe” did it. I think she is a self-made woman in that regard.
Pecunium, please accept this shiny new internet!